‘And again, O Subhūti, a gift should not be given by a Bodhisattva, while he believes in objects; a gift should not be given by him, while he believes in anything; a gift should not be given by him, while he believes in form; a gift should not be given by him, while he believes in the special qualities of sound, smell, taste, and touch. For thus, O Subhūti, should a gift be given by a noble-minded Bodhisattva, that he should not believe even in the idea of cause. And why? Because that Bodhisattva, O Subhūti, who gives a gift, without believing in anything, the measure of his stock of merit is not easy to learn.’—‘What do you think, O Subhūti, is it easy to learn the measure of space in the eastern quarter?’ Subhūti said: ‘Not indeed, O Bhagavat.’—Bhagavat said: ‘In like manner, is it easy to learn the measure of space in the southern, western, northern quarters, below and above (nadir and zenith), in quarters and subquarters, in the ten quarters all round?’ Subhūti said: ‘Not indeed, O Bhagavat.’
Bhagavat said: ‘In the same manner, O Subhūti, the measure of the stock of merit of a Bodhisattva, who gives a gift without believing in anything, is not easy to learn. And thus indeed, O Subhūti, should one who has entered on the path of Bodhisattvas give a gift, that he should not believe even in the idea of cause.’ (4)
Now, what do you think, O Subhuti, should a Tathagata be seen (known) by the possession of signs? Subhuti said: ‘Not indeed, O Bhagavat, a Tathagata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs. And why? Because what has been preached by the Tathagata as the possession of signs, that is indeed the possession of no-signs.’
Now, what do you think, O Subhuti, should a Tathagata be seen (known) by the possession of signs? Subhuti said: ‘Not indeed, O Bhagavat, a Tathagata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs. And why? Because what has been preached by the Tathagata as the possession of signs, that is indeed the possession of no-signs.’
After this, Bhagavat spoke thus to the venerable Subhuti: ‘Wherever there is, O Subhuti, the possession of signs, there is falsehood; wherever there is no possession of signs, there is no falsehood. Hence the Tathagata is to be seen (known) from no-signs as signs.’ (5)